Comments on: Preparing For Worship in a Programmed Meeting http://www.northvalleyfriends.org/2007/03/30/preparing-for-worship-in-a-programmed-setting/ Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:32:32 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1 By: Bruce Bishop http://www.northvalleyfriends.org/2007/03/30/preparing-for-worship-in-a-programmed-setting/#comment-110 Bruce Bishop Fri, 30 Mar 2007 22:03:56 +0000 http://www.northvalleyfriends.org/2007/03/30/preparing-for-worship-in-a-programmed-setting/#comment-110 I think an element missing in your questions, Stan,is that unprogrammed worship isn’t JUST a space for vocal ministry to be shared, but it’s ALSO a space for everyone to be silent before God, to center in and hear the message that God might have for them, be it from the sermon or within their own experience. I wouldn’t want us to propogate the idea that our unprogrammed time is really just an invitation for messages to be shared, and therefore is wasted time if no one shares, or that we must give 15 more minutes just so we can hear from everyone. To me, open worship is a group centering exercise, where we each become still and listen to God. Meaningful messages can rise from that time, as prompted by God.. and good preparation is important. But it's not just the time in the service for non-pastors to share. Meaningful sharing by non-pastors can be placed behind the pulpit during the sermon time, and it can rise from the unprogrammed time. But the unprogrammed time is more than just a pause to see if anyone else has something to say. I know you understand it that way as well, Stan. Your questions didn't really seem to imply that, however. So I offer this potential corrective, and encourage us to get back to YOUR topic about how we can prepare ourselves for a programmed service that has unprogrammed time in it. Bruce Bishop I think an element missing in your questions, Stan,is that unprogrammed worship isn’t JUST a space for vocal ministry to be shared, but it’s ALSO a space for everyone to be silent before God, to center in and hear the message that God might have for them, be it from the sermon or within their own experience. I wouldn’t want us to propogate the idea that our unprogrammed time is really just an invitation for messages to be shared, and therefore is wasted time if no one shares, or that we must give 15 more minutes just so we can hear from everyone.

To me, open worship is a group centering exercise, where we each become still and listen to God. Meaningful messages can rise from that time, as prompted by God.. and good preparation is important. But it’s not just the time in the service for non-pastors to share. Meaningful sharing by non-pastors can be placed behind the pulpit during the sermon time, and it can rise from the unprogrammed time. But the unprogrammed time is more than just a pause to see if anyone else has something to say.

I know you understand it that way as well, Stan. Your questions didn’t really seem to imply that, however. So I offer this potential corrective, and encourage us to get back to YOUR topic about how we can prepare ourselves for a programmed service that has unprogrammed time in it.

Bruce Bishop

]]> By: cherice http://www.northvalleyfriends.org/2007/03/30/preparing-for-worship-in-a-programmed-setting/#comment-128 cherice Thu, 19 Apr 2007 06:02:44 +0000 http://www.northvalleyfriends.org/2007/03/30/preparing-for-worship-in-a-programmed-setting/#comment-128 I think adding extra time would be good, and/or having one Sunday a month without a person specified to give a message. These would be good places to start. It's hard to know what to do in a culture where time is so important to us. George Fox could preach for hours because no one was going anywhere--there was nothing else to do on a First-day afternoon! But now so many have such set schedules that getting out of meeting a few minutes late seems like a burden. Should we try to be counter-cultural in this and wait for the Spirit's leading before we leave the room? Or do we think the Spirit is working within this cultural way of being, and try to honor the other commitments people have by limiting the length of services and attempting to follow God within that time-frame? The question of preparation is an excellent one, which I don't have a good answer for. Of course I sometimes think I will bring the message that week--whwn I'm on the schedule to do so! But a) what would I do if that day came and I didn't feel I had a message to share, and b) do i come prepared other times? These are excellent questions which I think drive at the very authenticity of our corporate worship and our way of listening to God as Quakers in general. I think adding extra time would be good, and/or having one Sunday a month without a person specified to give a message. These would be good places to start.

It’s hard to know what to do in a culture where time is so important to us. George Fox could preach for hours because no one was going anywhere–there was nothing else to do on a First-day afternoon! But now so many have such set schedules that getting out of meeting a few minutes late seems like a burden.

Should we try to be counter-cultural in this and wait for the Spirit’s leading before we leave the room?

Or do we think the Spirit is working within this cultural way of being, and try to honor the other commitments people have by limiting the length of services and attempting to follow God within that time-frame?

The question of preparation is an excellent one, which I don’t have a good answer for. Of course I sometimes think I will bring the message that week–whwn I’m on the schedule to do so! But a) what would I do if that day came and I didn’t feel I had a message to share, and b) do i come prepared other times? These are excellent questions which I think drive at the very authenticity of our corporate worship and our way of listening to God as Quakers in general.

]]> By: Kathleen Gathercoal http://www.northvalleyfriends.org/2007/03/30/preparing-for-worship-in-a-programmed-setting/#comment-129 Kathleen Gathercoal Thu, 19 Apr 2007 17:45:37 +0000 http://www.northvalleyfriends.org/2007/03/30/preparing-for-worship-in-a-programmed-setting/#comment-129 As I read Stan's comments I was surprised to learn of early Friends preparation before meeting. I had always assumed, as Bruce suggested, that only leadings that arose spontaneously within the meeting were legitimate, but I find the concept of preparing through the week very appealing. I would support this experiment. Might we try it this summer? In response to Cherice's suggestion that we plan some weeks when we would allow ourselves to be flexible with the ending time i.e., allowing ourselves to listen to the Spirit about when to end worship, I think planning to be spontaneous is 1. ironic and 2. a practical way forward. It allows us to think about solutions to one of the practical implications of an extended worship time, namely childcare. I might suggest that on the planned first-day we could have a "second shift" of childen's church volunteers who might releive those who had already presented and spent time with the children. The shift might allow the children to get a second wind and shift gears into active play or a snack time or some other option. I don't want to bog down in the details here, but merely to point out one implication that planning might allow us to meet successfully. Kathleen Gathercoal As I read Stan’s comments I was surprised to learn of early Friends preparation before meeting. I had always assumed, as Bruce suggested, that only leadings that arose spontaneously within the meeting were legitimate, but I find the concept of preparing through the week very appealing. I would support this experiment. Might we try it this summer?

In response to Cherice’s suggestion that we plan some weeks when we would allow ourselves to be flexible with the ending time i.e., allowing ourselves to listen to the Spirit about when to end worship, I think planning to be spontaneous is 1. ironic and 2. a practical way forward. It allows us to think about solutions to one of the practical implications of an extended worship time, namely childcare. I might suggest that on the planned first-day we could have a “second shift” of childen’s church volunteers who might releive those who had already presented and spent time with the children. The shift might allow the children to get a second wind and shift gears into active play or a snack time or some other option. I don’t want to bog down in the details here, but merely to point out one implication that planning might allow us to meet successfully.

Kathleen Gathercoal

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