I recently raised the topic of church with people of varying ages who were over for dinner.  All of us had long history of church attendance in our backgrounds, some still attend church and others don’t, but as we moved beyond the “surface” it felt like each one of us was conflicted about the role and call of the church in our particular situations.  We discovered the common thread was our desire to be faithful followers of Christ and a longing for a “safe place” to bring our questions, frustrations and leadings regarding what that following meant for us both personally and collectively.   This conversation and others have made me wonder about our openness for dialog regarding church.

In early November, Jon and I are going to attend a conference sponsored by Off the Map; an organization that seeks to connect with Spiritual Explorers (people who are trying to make sense out of life and suspect God might somehow be involved).  This conference will focus on providing space for meaningful and connecting dialog, which they suggest, is possible only if we move from “tell” to “listen and ask.” 

So, I’ve been spending some time on their website (www.offthemap.com) when I came across a recent posting in which a 23-year-old man wrote that, “the church sucks.” Jim Henderson, co-founder and executive director of Off the Map, picked up that remark and included it in an opening headline on the website.  Needless to say, he received quite a few concerned comments and he later apologized for unwisely including the off-the-cuff-remark.  But what follows was of great value to me.  He wrote:

 “Just to keep things real and not allow us to slip into non-critical thinking I need to say that when a 23-year-old young person tells me he/she thinks church sucks:

1) I listen
2) I ask why
3) I resist the urge to correct him/her
4) I say thank you for trusting me enough to tell me the truth - I take that as a compliment

I don’t expect them to “take care” of my feelings, opinions or perceptions. Nor do I expect them to have the broadest viewpoint available. They are after all, still young.

What bothers me more is when people my age (45 +) - people with a lot of church time in and  people who themselves know that church can suck enough of the time to bother even them- when they get defensive or go all theological on the younger person- they spend more time telling instead of asking. That is what I truly think is more dangerous and disappointing in the long run.

The particular young man who said this to me is not a disenfranchised angst filled youth. He came straight from Christian stock- his parents are believers and he in fact volunteers full time as an intern for free in one of Seattle’s most cutting edge churches - He is doing work for Off The Map for free so that people who are coming to Off The Map Live will have a better experience.

Bottom line - he earned the right to have an opinion that I took seriously. I wouldn’t have printed it otherwise.

Even though I say all of this, I still am happy that a couple of close friends (who have also earned the right to have me listen closely to what they say) suggested that I apologize. I agree with them that it was not a wise move but I also agree with my young friend that something is seriously broken (a more polite and socially acceptable way to say that church sucks) with what we call church and for that I will not apologize.

I am honored that my young friend trusts me enough to tell me the truth.”

Trusting enough to tell the truth, or I might say, “speaking my truth or my experience,” can be difficult.  The saying, “the truth hurts,” isn’t far from my thoughts, and frankly I don’t like to feel hurt and I don’t like to cause hurt.  The words I have to say are not entirely true but they are not entirely untrue.  They are the best words I have at the time.  Therefore, I appreciate the Quaker understanding that one person seldom possesses all the truth of a situation but it is as we each bring our pieces of truth that a greater truth can be known and then, “way” can open. Many times we refer to this process as group discernment.    

It appears to me that there are many more folks than just youth who are feeling that something is seriously broken (a more polite way and socially acceptable way to say that church sucks) with what we call church, to quote the posting above.  I’m curious about the number of Christ followers who currently find themselves outside the walls of an institutional church.  Some have even gone so far and wonder out loud if perhaps Christ is leading folks outside the church? The specifics of this could mean a variety of things and I’m not suggesting that I have any definitive answer about whether people should or should not leave church.  I have many more questions than answers but I can say I have benefited when others have trusted me enough to tell me their truth.  At these times I have to remember to listen, ask why, resist the urge to correct and express my appreciation for trusting me enough to share their truth.

I am looking forward to the conference.  I’m sure I will have some of my buttons pushed but I hope I can remain open to new ways God may be leading.  I also trust that as we continue to dialog together about church and being faithful followers of Christ we will have the grace for meaningful and connecting dialog which will propel us past our own brokenness, fear or disillusionment so that we can be the light of Christ in service to others.

                                                                                                                                    ~Lynn

I have been looking over some of my early Quaker stuff in anticipation of Cherice’s Wednesday evening discussions and it has struck me how much I appreciate the strong preaching of George Fox and his contemporaries.  A quick glance at era’s during which Friends’ ministry was powerful seems to point to a correlation to times during which the vocal ministry was powerful.

This train of thought brought me to wonder about the role of vocal ministry in programmed meetings. 

When I visited Friends in Ireland (unprogrammed AND evangelical) I noticed a pronounced vitality in their meetings and a strong prophetic (and evangelistic) spirit in the meetings I visited.  (just two meetings on two different Sundays)  In both cases I learned that a few ”weighty Friends” in each meeting would come with a message on their hearts over which they had prayed and studied (a bit like my own preparation for a sermon).  In the silence of worship they would seek the Spirit’s guidance in deciding whether to stand and vocalize that message.  Quite often only one or sometimes none of the prepared Friends would actually speak.

I think we give lip service to a similar dynamic in our meetings.  Certainly we encourage people to stand and give voice to what they believe is a message God has given them for this community of faith on this given Sunday.  I like that practice.

In practicality, however, it is problematic when one’s message eclipses the programmed part of worship.  Sometimes the community becomes anxious when one’s message begins to encroach the space usually taken by the sermon.  In such cases it almost seems we are at odds with our own tradition.

Roy Gathercoal and I have been in an ongoing conversation about this topic, more specifically - the role of prophetic voice in programmed meetings like ours.  The following questions seem important to address.  It would be good to include more of you in the conversations.

Some questions occur to me at this point:

1.  What does it me to prepare for worship in programmed meeting? 

2.  Should several of us prepare messages and then wait for the Spirit’s leading?

3.  Sine we can’t be both programmed and unprogrammed at the same time, how do we accomodate the person who feels nudged to vocalize a message?

4.  What kind of oversight should we provide for worship in terms of the spoken ministry?

5.  What do you do in preparation for worship?  Does it occur to you that perhaps you might be the message bearer on any given Sunday?

6.  Should we leave the time usually taken by a prepared message by a pastor open once a month for others to speak?

7.  Should we add 15 minutes to our meetings to give more time for vocal ministry by others?

8.  Should we provide other venues for people to clear themselves of the messages God puts on their hearts?

I’d like to hear what you think would be best for North Valley as we go forward.

One of the things that gives me life lately is blogging, and reading other blogs. Blogging helps me process what I’m thinking about and learning, and it’s helpful to have it commented upon by people who may or may not share my perspective. In this way my opinions are challenged, and I am connected with like-minded people who I wouldn’t otherwise ever know.

Right now there’s a pretty healthy community of Quaker bloggers out there in the “blogosphere,” and the best way to find out about them is to go to quakerquaker.org, which lists many of the best/most consistent Quaker blogs. It’s fun to read what other Quakers are thinking about, and how Quakerism is practiced around the world (at least the English-speaking world).

Reading Quaker blogs are a fun way to be part of the “online conversation” that happens in our culture. Among Quaker bloggers there is an almost automatic sense of community because we’re all Friends. Right now there’s a movement some are calling “Convergent Friends,” where each blogger is thinking about what it means to be a Friend and being drawn together in the process. This conversation about identity would be different if we had it only with others from North Valley, or only people from Northwest Yearly Meeting. Instead, in this online venue, it can be a conversation where people with all different opinions can share their voice.

Obviously the blogosphere isn’t the best place for communal discernment or for making definitive decisions about what it means to be a Friend, but it’s an interesting conversation that connects us with the culture through asking about our relevence to the world and to one another as branches of Friends.

Check out quakerquaker.org for many Quaker blogs. My blog site is quakeroatslive.blogspot.com. If any of you at North Valley have blogs you want listed on the website let me know and I’ll add your link!

I was moved by the “First Word” that Laurie shared in worship last Sunday. I asked her if I could post them here:

“When our first daughter was born, the doctor did not give us much hope that she would live. As we watched her suffer and struggle for each breath, we felt
so helpless. It was unbearable to watch her suffering. She amazed everyone by surviving and with no disabilities from her illness.

When our second daughter was five months old, we rushed her to the hospital. Again, we were not given much hope for survival. As they wheeled her into
surgery, the nurses stopped the gurney and let me kiss her goodbye. I did not know if I would see her alive again. She made it through the surgery and has had
no complications since.

Over the years as I have looked back over these two experiences, I can see what God was doing through them. He was saying, “Look, pay attention, look at
what I am giving you. These children are a precious gift from Me that I am giving to you to raise.”

When your children are handed back to you from the brink of death, you do not take their lives for granted or the responsibility of raising them lightly.

As I see all the children God is blessing this church family with, I am reminded that we have an incredible responsibility to them and to God to teach
them, nurture and love them and to raise these children in the Lord’s ways.

Our children are a gift, a blessing from God and we need to make sure we do not forget that.”

Laurie Conant

There are several conversations going on among NVFC folks. They involve a significant number of people but not all of them are talking to each other. Some of them I am a part of and some not, but I thought it would be good to let you know what’s being discussed so that you can get in on the conversation(s) that interests you.

1. Sunday School Teachers A lot of us are scratching our heads trying to figure out why, in a church so committed to kids, that it so hard to find people willing to help out with Sunday School. Lots of ideas are floating around about why that is: 1. Some who have done it for a long time are burned out and wish some new blood would take over. 2. Some who have kids themselves find Sunday AM one of the few times they get to have adult interaction and love knowing that they can trust the SS teachers and helpers with their kids for an hour a week. 3. Its way scary. 4. It feels like a job one could get trapped in forever. 5. Not gifted in that area. Etc. What should be done? Is there something that needs to change about the program itself?
Are there reasons that haven’t been thought of? What are some possible solutions? (brainstorm)

If you want to weigh in on this conversation talk to Kim Boyd, Lynn Clouser Holt, Scot Headly, or someone else on the CE committee.

2. Committee in general There are several conversations about how to make church work more rewarding, how to make business flow more smoothly, how to avoid long, boring meetings, how to involve lots more people in the nuts and bolts of our mission, etc etc. The conversations have sort of gelled into an ad hoc committee (Keith Baker, Stan, Rebekah Schneiter, Scot Headly, Jenny Crackenburg, Myrlene Rourke, Wes Cropper) which is brainstorming about changing our committee structure to reflect the needs and work style of the people of NVFC. We’re talking about changing some of the committees to task forces. The advantage is that the task forces would meet just when there was something to do and/or when there was a project to plan. A task force could draw on about anyone who might just stay on for one project. They would only report to AD COM when they needed to. They could have unlimited numbers of people interested in their area of responsibility but wouldn’t have to worry about gathering them all together for meetings. Another idea would be to let everyone select an area of interest which would automatically put them on a task force in that area. When there was something that needed to be done in that area, everyone on that list would be contacted and invited to participate if they desired. That way, everyone would be included but wouldn’t have to feel obligated to participate in every activity the task force chose to do. Also, Nominating committee would only have to find two or three people to head of a task force because others would be recruited for short-term service as projects came up. If you would like to join that conversation you could meet with the ad-hoc committee (next meeting 7-05-05) or chat with one of the members about your ideas.

3. Business There is a conversation going on about how to make business meetings more effective. Sometimes people see it as just rubber-stamping work that’s been done by AdCom or some other committee. Other see it as a slow moving meeting during which brain squeezing minutiae is endlessly debated. Early Friends called it “meeting for worship for business” - how do we get back to that so that business meetings are places we actually do discernment, where personal agendas give way to listening only for God’s voice? How do we make sure the minutiae which doesn’t lend itself to discernment are taken care of in some other venue without giving up the ideal that everyone’s leading is important? This conversation is mostly happening in Administrative committee but I have noticed a fair amount of discussion in the foyers and hallways about it too. You can go to Keith, one of the Team, someone on Ad Com if you care to ask questions and/or make suggestions.