In early November, Jon and I are going to attend a conference sponsored by Off the Map; an organization that seeks to connect with Spiritual Explorers (people who are trying to make sense out of life and suspect God might somehow be involved).  This conference will focus on providing space for meaningful and connecting dialog, which they suggest, is possible only if we move from “tell” to “listen and ask.” 

So, I’ve been spending some time on their website (www.offthemap.com) when I came across a recent posting in which a 23-year-old man wrote that, “the church sucks.” Jim Henderson, co-founder and executive director of Off the Map, picked up that remark and included it in an opening headline on the website.  Needless to say, he received quite a few concerned comments and he later apologized for unwisely including the off-the-cuff-remark.  But what follows was of great value to me.  He wrote:

 “Just to keep things real and not allow us to slip into non-critical thinking I need to say that when a 23-year-old young person tells me he/she thinks church sucks:

1) I listen
2) I ask why
3) I resist the urge to correct him/her
4) I say thank you for trusting me enough to tell me the truth - I take that as a compliment

I don’t expect them to “take care” of my feelings, opinions or perceptions. Nor do I expect them to have the broadest viewpoint available. They are after all, still young.

What bothers me more is when people my age (45 +) - people with a lot of church time in and  people who themselves know that church can suck enough of the time to bother even them- when they get defensive or go all theological on the younger person- they spend more time telling instead of asking. That is what I truly think is more dangerous and disappointing in the long run.

The particular young man who said this to me is not a disenfranchised angst filled youth. He came straight from Christian stock- his parents are believers and he in fact volunteers full time as an intern for free in one of Seattle’s most cutting edge churches - He is doing work for Off The Map for free so that people who are coming to Off The Map Live will have a better experience.

Bottom line - he earned the right to have an opinion that I took seriously. I wouldn’t have printed it otherwise.

Even though I say all of this, I still am happy that a couple of close friends (who have also earned the right to have me listen closely to what they say) suggested that I apologize. I agree with them that it was not a wise move but I also agree with my young friend that something is seriously broken (a more polite and socially acceptable way to say that church sucks) with what we call church and for that I will not apologize.

I am honored that my young friend trusts me enough to tell me the truth.”

Trusting enough to tell the truth, or I might say, “speaking my truth or my experience,” can be difficult.  The saying, “the truth hurts,” isn’t far from my thoughts, and frankly I don’t like to feel hurt and I don’t like to cause hurt.  The words I have to say are not entirely true but they are not entirely untrue.  They are the best words I have at the time.  Therefore, I appreciate the Quaker understanding that one person seldom possesses all the truth of a situation but it is as we each bring our pieces of truth that a greater truth can be known and then, “way” can open. Many times we refer to this process as group discernment.    

It appears to me that there are many more folks than just youth who are feeling that something is seriously broken (a more polite way and socially acceptable way to say that church sucks) with what we call church, to quote the posting above.  I’m curious about the number of Christ followers who currently find themselves outside the walls of an institutional church.  Some have even gone so far and wonder out loud if perhaps Christ is leading folks outside the church? The specifics of this could mean a variety of things and I’m not suggesting that I have any definitive answer about whether people should or should not leave church.  I have many more questions than answers but I can say I have benefited when others have trusted me enough to tell me their truth.  At these times I have to remember to listen, ask why, resist the urge to correct and express my appreciation for trusting me enough to share their truth.

I am looking forward to the conference.  I’m sure I will have some of my buttons pushed but I hope I can remain open to new ways God may be leading.  I also trust that as we continue to dialog together about church and being faithful followers of Christ we will have the grace for meaningful and connecting dialog which will propel us past our own brokenness, fear or disillusionment so that we can be the light of Christ in service to others.

                                                                                                                                    ~Lynn

Some people are very generous with their time, others guard their private time more carefully.  Some people are generous with their praise, others seldom pass on encouraging remarks or observations.  Some people are generous with their money, others are pretty tight.   Some people are generous with forgiveness and grace, others are more punitive or unforgiving.  Some people are generous with themselves, others withdraw or hide behind a facade.  Some people are generous with their talents and gifts, others are more sparing with their willingness to share these things.  The list goes on and on.  Where do you fit in these comparisons?  In what areas do you see yourself as generous and in what areas do you feel less than generous?  When does generosity come easily to you and when does it come with difficulty? 

Why are  many poor people generally more generous than many wealthy people? 

Did Jesus model a life of generosity?

Does God seem generous in your experience?

What’s the most generous deed ever done for you?  What is the most generous deed you have ever done for another?

Why is giving such a dicey topic to raise in the church community?

Is giving “with strings’ as generous and giving without strings attached?

Is there a connection between gratitude and generosity?

Is there a connection between generosity and happiness?

How does God’s generosity impact your life?  Does God give without strings? 

Hopefully, these questions will spark some thought, conversation, or even a response on this website.  The deeper you are willing to go in dealing with these questions the more profound your experience of them will be.  On Sunday we’ll have some time to consider a couple of these questions during our open worship period.  Have fun! 

Bruce Longstroth served as the presiding clerk, Scot Headley as the recording clerk. About 18 people in attendance.

Bruce made an opening statement regarding the rationale for this special meeting, all NVFC folks were invited for the purpose of discussing growth in the church. Points Bruce made:
· Several months ago the administrative committee received a report from a special task force which outlined a process for discussing growth. Handouts were distributed to participants in this meeting.
· Bruce expressed apprehension and excitement concerning planning for growth at NV.
· He questioned whether the leadership and body at NV had the energy and attention to see changes through.
· Land use committee phase one work almost completed, with phase two about ready to begin.
· Young people (not necessarily those at NV) have a desire to ‘do church differently’.
· Two questions need to be addressed; a) How do we want to manage the growth of the church? and b) If no growth is the preferred option, what do we do, improve quality of the church programs and activities? Regarding managing growth, how is growth defined? Is it number of participants, variety of ministries, size of facility? Priorities are important, that is if we have to make choices, how do we? Regarding the no growth option, how is quality improved? Is it working on priority ministries, personnel, funding?

Bruce distributed a handout that had excerpts from a book that Stan had shared with some, regarding size transitions in a church and asked Stan to make some opening comments.

Stan stated that when he first came to NV he wondered whether the vision of the church body was to limit numerical size. He also wondered about what factors limit growth barriers in churches. He stated that NV is ‘stuck between a pastoral church and a program church (according to the model described in the size transitions book)’. This size church is the most difficult to grow. Questions that Stan posed are, a) what are things we like about being who we are? and b) What are we willing to give up to get what we want?

Bruce opened the discussion up to all participants.

Jon stated that we are discussing what it means to be a missional church. If we want to go outward into the community, is this in tension to growing with ‘bricks and mortar’? He mentioned the possible collaboration over facility sharing with Veritas as an important aspect to be considered.

Bill shared about the beginnings of NV. He said those were exciting times. NV was the product of a merger between two small congregations. People were unified, purchased property and met on hay bales while the facility was being built. There was a purposeful decision made at that time to limit the size and construct the shape of the sanctuary so that a particular type of worship, participatory and inclusive, could be maintained. The choice was made to limit the sanctuary to accommodate no more than 250 people. Several times since the inception of NV, the numerical size of the congregation required decisions about dealing with too many folks in worship service. Several alternatives were tried. Two similar services on Sunday mornings was tried and each time the early service ‘petered out’ due to lack of numbers. Bill stated that some might argue that nothing that was tried to address increasing numbers was successful as those efforts were not sustained.

Al stated that several ideas were discussed, but not implemented. These included having two services with simultaneous Sunday schools running both times. Another idea was to have two services on Sunday morning, but have each very different (music cited as a primary difference) in an attempt to appeal to different segments of the congregation.

Kathleen stated that what she looks for in a church she has gotten at NV. Some of these things are being accountable to others, a group of people who hold similar but not exact values, relationships, support. Sermons that are challenging, small Sunday school group and other people listening are also important. Having access to the pastors is important. NV is a healthy place and is listening to God. The process of making decisions is important and it is a refining process (regardless of the decision).

Bruce stated that if we have excellence, growth is an outcome.

Bill stated that he does not want to be a part of a group that does not want to grow.

Jim stated that if we are doing an excellent job we will grow. He expressed a concern that the young adults at NV are not at this meeting. He stated that we have been successful in reaching out to young adults in some ways but not in others. He also cited the need for commitments, both financial to provide for needs and commitments of time and energy to do projects together, such as building certain buildings on the NV campus. he suggested that sharing our enthusiasm with others is important.

Darlene stated that we need to be responsive when visitors and newcomers come to NV. Many young people are here at NV and that is a remarkable thing. But she admitted that she does not know about the younger generation’s assumptions, commitments and investments. They are not the same as older folks. She stated that the approach of the younger folks is different. She also stated that facilities and resources do need to be available.

Stan reminded the group that NV has done a lot of things right. We may not have physical space and may need to provide more emotional space. Stan shared that he visited a larger church recently with multiple services, he did not like it.
Kathleen stated that maybe the ‘small schools’ approach is appropriate for a church.

Tabitha stated that she grew up in a large church (2,000 members). Although one could not know everyone, she did know many folks and there was a sense of community around smaller groups there.

Scot shared Debbie’s idea from Social Concerns about sending one-fourth of the congregation out every Sunday morning for service projects as part of our worship experience. He also stated the need for education and discipleship to help folks realize the blessing of making and keeping obligations.

Jim cited the GAGA trip as an example of how people get connected in ministry and for ministry.

Kathleen stated that once folks get ‘launched’, they don’t have to be at NV.

Bruce agreed, although he asked, what if they do want to be at NV, do we have room for them? Will we keep losing people out the backdoor?

Tabitha stated that she was influenced by the social concern of NV and that is a big reason why they are here. She cited the sack lunches for the homeless as a great example of getting involved and stated that NV needs to do more of this type of helping ministry.

Earl stated that he thought that we are a multiplicity of congregations at NV. We do need space for people. In his role as greeter, Earl sees lots of newcomers. He has seen cars pull into the parking lot and leave, due to lack of space. He said we are in need of expanding the facility. He suggested that an intentional effort at expanding the small group efforts at NV would be a good idea.

Bruce stated that we are already of a size that no one can know everyone else at NV. Although there a number of smaller cell groups operating.

Lynn stated that in the current model, pastors know all the folks and help them get connected. In children’s department, we have over 50 adult volunteers and need to add about eight more for morning children’s worship. We do currently have gaps in our children’s worker schedule. Several of our kids are needing extra attention due to learning difficulties and attention problems. She believes we are at a crucial stage. Nursery is at capacity with about nine babies in the nursery, with the need for three adults in the nursery regularly. There is a need for space, but an even greater need for people.

Jon shared his experience at a Presbyterian church. Targeting young adults with kids was a successful effort for numerical growth, but brought two distinct congregations, which was a downside to growth.

Bruce shared his experience of visiting a Saturday night service of a church in La Grande, OR. About 200 folks were there, mostly young, although older folks were encouraged to attend.

Jon reminded the group that small groups can meet on any night of the week and in homes, they do not need to meet at the church facility.

Bruce stated that he was pleased to hear different people in this meeting say that they were not in favor of a ‘no growth’ stance.

Jackie shared that NV has had strong kids programs for quite some time. She also reminded us that GFU is a good resource in our community for interns and others seeking ministry opportunities. Parents should be asked to be involved as teachers and helpers and also it is possible that the congregation would give funding for more interns.

Lynn stated that funded interns are used on Wednesday evening for the kids programs then.

Jackie asked if we want to grow, or not. Is there a need for facility or staffing? She reminded us that parents grow as they are involved in helping their kids grow. Parental involvement should be encouraged. Putting a meeting together of parents of young kids to interact with them is a good idea.

Bill raised the question of how excellence is defined. He suspects that not everything done at NV is excellent. He stated that for both adult leadership and facility, plans could be made for both.

Al stated that sharing our enthusiasm for the good things at NV with others is a way of getting others involved. He threw out the idea of using the fellowship hall with television as an overflow area.

Bill shared his experience of being in a Sunday school class with Jimmy Carter recently in Plains GA in which closed circuit TV was used to accommodate large numbers.

Kathleen stated that she has not heard that folks at Newberg Friends Church feel fragmented even though there are three services there and people don’t know many folks from the other services.

Lynn pointed out that there are about eight young couples (pre-kids) in the congregation and there is some work going on to connect these folks. It is unusual for this age folks to be attending church.

Bill stated that pulling groups together was a good idea and Jackie added that if no other time was available, doing that on Sunday morning during worship time was a good idea.

Jim spoke of ‘already-formed’ groups of NV folks and others, getting together for fellowship, support, Bible study, etc.

Lynn said that Newberg is growing, the younger generation longs for connections. Self-selected groups may be hard to break into and newer folks need help getting connected.

Bruce wondered if maybe not shutting the backdoor was appropriate. In other words, maybe the ones that are leaving NV are finding other more appropriate places to be, and that is alright.

Bill suggested that maybe we are chasing some out the backdoor. Maybe we need to be more intentional about planning events to get newcomers connected.

Stan pointed out that in his view we are already organizing ourselves as a ‘program church’. The problem is not that we are not welcoming but that we need ways of organizing ourselves differently.

Darlene said that she believed that by listening to one another, we can hear God’s voice. We can be more conscious about providing the structure for listening to one another.

Jim spoke about Lynn’s identification of a definite need. Maybe we need to consider going outside of our budget to hire interns to address Sunday morning staffing needs. He would like to also get information from various groups in the congregation.

Lynn and Scot spoke to the Education Committee efforts to raise up more volunteers and for a ministry fair in the fall to share information about various aspects of congregational life.

Bruce suggested that the Education Committee report back on staffing needs.

Annie stated that getting parents together to speak about needs for involvement and financial commitments was a good idea.

Stan said that he liked the idea of getting groups together.

Darlene suggested that identifying leaders in each group was a way of pulling the groups together.

Bill said that letting others in the congregation see our enthusiasm was a way of helping others get involved.

Kathleen recalled a request for parents to help fund the Wednesday programs for kids.

Lynn stated that those funds were used in paying for supplies and curriculum but that there was some pushback from some parents about having to pay. The dinner portion of Wednesday night activities is fairly self-sustaining.
Jim suggested bringing a proposal which outlines needs.

Darlene stated her belief that NV is a vital community and that God is active among us.

Bruce proposed that a possible next step was to determine what others are thinking and that there needs to be an effective way of getting others to provide input.

Earl reminded us that stewardship is important and that God provides.

Stan stated that this meeting was the first of many conversations.

Al stated that from the very beginning, NVFC has been engaged in prayer and listening to one another.

Bruce adjourned the meeting.

News Feature
By Bob Curley

Fewer adolescents are telling federal researchers that they use marijuana, but the 2006 National Survey on Drug Use and Health(NSDUH) reported that most indicators of alcohol, tobacco and other drug use remain relatively unchanged from 2005.The Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration(SAMHSA) unveiled the survey results on Sept. 6, with federal officials touting a 25-percent reported decline in marijuana use among male youths between 2002 and 2006 but fretting over the 2.2 million new nonmedical users of prescription drugs, including narcotic painkillers. Most users of prescription drugs for recreational reasons reported getting the drugs free from friends or family members.

“Teens are getting the message about the harms of marijuana and are changing their behavior for the better,” said drug czar John Walters. “However, youth abuse of prescription drugs remains a troubling concern. With prescription drug abuse, we’re confronting a different kind of drug threat — one that lurks not in dark alleys, but in medicine cabinets within our homes. Parents have been vital to reducing teen use of street drugs, and now they must engage to prevent the abuse of prescription drugs.”

The survey found that current use of marijuana among all youths ages 12 to 17 declined from 8.2 percent in 2002 to 6.7 percent in 2006, and that overall monthly  illicit-drug use among this age group fell from 11.6 percent in 2002 to 9.8 percent in 2006, with the latter figure basically unchanged from 2005. “The trends in general are very encouraging,” said Health and Human Services Secretary Mike Leavitt. 

However, Ray Warren, director of state policies for the Marijuana Policy Project, said that marijuana use is “almost exactly where it was 20 years ago” and termed marijuana prohibition “a disastrously failed policy.” And the NSDUH reported that youths’ perceived risk about use of marijuana, cocaine and heroin remained unchanged between 2002 and 2006.

Use of legal but addictive drugs remained the more prevalent problem in the U.S. Nonmedical use of prescription drugs among young adults, for example, rose from 5.4 percent in 2002 to 6.4 percent in 2006. “The abuse of prescription drugs for nonmedical reasons is of increasing concern,” said SAMHSA administrator Terry Cline, Ph.D. 

About half of all Americans are current drinkers, and of these about one in five reported binge drinking in 2006, and 6.9 percent reported heavy drinking — all rates essentially unchanged from 2005. More than 40 percent of adults ages 18 to 25 reported binge drinkers, and 15.6 percent of this age group were considered heavy drinkers.

Underage drinking rates also remained stable, with the rate of current alcohol use among youths aged 12 to 17 at 16.6 percent in 2006, youth binge drinking rates at 10.3 percent, and heavy drinking reported by 2.4 percent of adolescents.

Roughly 30 percent of all Americans reported past-month smoking in 2006. Current smoking among 12- to 17-year-olds declined from 13 percent in 2002 to 10.4 percent in 2006, but use of smokeless tobacco among this age group crept higher, from 2 percent in 2002 to 2.4 percent in 2006.

Reported new users of various drugs remained mostly unchanged, according to the 2006 NSDUH, but ecstasy — a drug that seems to have fallen off the public and media radar screen — gained an estimated 860,000 new used in 2006, down from the 2002 estimate of 1.2 million but a big increase over the 600,000 new users reported in 2005.

Almost 90 percent of the estimated 4.4 million new users of alcohol in 2006 were under age 21. Likewise, 61 percent of new smokers in 2006 were under the legal age of 18, even though more youths reported that they believed there is a great risk in smoking one or more packs of cigarettes daily.

There were an estimated 2.4 million new smokers in 2006, up from an estimated 1.9 million in 2002.

An estimated 9.2 percent of all Americans are classified as dependent on or abusers of alcohol or other drugs, according to the NSDUH, a figure little changed from 2002 to 2006. But just 1.6 percent of the population received any kind of treatment for addiction.

Among those classified as needing treatment but not receiving it, about a third reported trying to get help but failing. SAMHSA administrator Leavitt said society needs to “do more to help people who are already addicted by providing access to a wide array of effective treatment and recovery support programs.”

My email sent to NVFC mailing list on 9-09-2007

I was visiting with a friend who works with adolescent addicts today.  I asked him about Newberg and how the fight against addiction was going.  He reported that meth use among adolescents was low and the use of alcohol and marijuana was holding steady but that the biggest growth in adolescent addiction was with Prescription drugs.  I asked him, “How in the world do teenagers get a hold of prescription drugs?”  I expected he would describe elaborate schemes to defraud pharmacies etc.  Instead, he said, “Usually from inattentive parents or grandparents.”  That really surprised me.  So, I thought I would write a note to encourage you who are parents/grandparents of adolescents to make sure that any narcotics, addictive pain meds, muscle relaxers, etc.  are kept in a secure place (other than the medicine cabinet), that you keep careful oversight of such medicines, and that leftover medications be discarded promptly.  The same goes for alcoholic beverages and “sniffables” like glue or aerosol products.  Even if your kids seem trustworthy, it may be that not all of their friends are equally trustworthy.

I’m probably preaching to the choir, but I know too well the painful and destructive results of adolescent substance abuse.  I also know that some kids choose to experiment with addictive substances in spite of good parenting and solid Christian upbringing.

I also believe that one of the most effective ways of helping kids keep true to their moral convictions is to surround them with a solid Christian network of support.  I am saying this to encourage each of you to get to know the youth in our church.  Take a minute to greet them on Sunday morning or to ask them about their lives.  Don’t let their surliness or one-word answers discourage you.  Even if they seem unimpressed, your taking the time to reach out to them makes a significant impression.

Thanks for listening.

Stan

As you think about your own desire to be missional or to reach out to friends and neighbors, what are some of the elements that you find discouraging?  Is you area a difficult place to do ministry?  What seems to be working against you?  Are you encountering any rejection?  What sustains you?  Where do you find encouragement?  Where do you sense God’s activity as you reach out?  Do you have any suggestions or encouragement for others who are also involved in ministry?  Leave your comments below.

These seem like such healthy responses to Christ/God.  All three of these men moved from these moments of profound worship of God to lifetimes of service.  I wonder if most Christians have experiences such as these men did.  I don’t mean the exact same circumstances and events, but a similar encounter with God’s majesty - one profound enough that one is driven to one’s knees (maybe not literally, but spiritually) out of a recognition of God’s or Jesus’ holiness, majesty, or sovereignty.  Do you have such an experience?  Would you be willing to share it in response to this post?  How does God’s Greatness and/or Christ’s presence impact you in your daily lives or in your worship, either private or corporate?

Good point! But then we started talking about who the “Valiant 60″ are today. We can’t all be part of the Boring 600, no matter how much more comfortable it makes us.

So here are some queries our group pondered: What are some things we’re feeling called to today? Our world isn’t perfect, so what sorts of injustice are we called to fight now? How are we called to be counter-cultural, not just for the sake of being different but because we cannot live in a way that is unjust toward others?

What is there that we believe is worth being imprisoned or dying for?

Is it possible to be passionate and radical about our faith when we aren’t being persecuted for it?

Are you willing to be a member of today’s “Valiant Sixty” if God calls you to do so?  What are you not willing to give up?

P.S.  I ask these questions just as much of myself as anyone else!

This train of thought brought me to wonder about the role of vocal ministry in programmed meetings. 

When I visited Friends in Ireland (unprogrammed AND evangelical) I noticed a pronounced vitality in their meetings and a strong prophetic (and evangelistic) spirit in the meetings I visited.  (just two meetings on two different Sundays)  In both cases I learned that a few ”weighty Friends” in each meeting would come with a message on their hearts over which they had prayed and studied (a bit like my own preparation for a sermon).  In the silence of worship they would seek the Spirit’s guidance in deciding whether to stand and vocalize that message.  Quite often only one or sometimes none of the prepared Friends would actually speak.

I think we give lip service to a similar dynamic in our meetings.  Certainly we encourage people to stand and give voice to what they believe is a message God has given them for this community of faith on this given Sunday.  I like that practice.

In practicality, however, it is problematic when one’s message eclipses the programmed part of worship.  Sometimes the community becomes anxious when one’s message begins to encroach the space usually taken by the sermon.  In such cases it almost seems we are at odds with our own tradition.

Roy Gathercoal and I have been in an ongoing conversation about this topic, more specifically - the role of prophetic voice in programmed meetings like ours.  The following questions seem important to address.  It would be good to include more of you in the conversations.

Some questions occur to me at this point:

1.  What does it me to prepare for worship in programmed meeting? 

2.  Should several of us prepare messages and then wait for the Spirit’s leading?

3.  Sine we can’t be both programmed and unprogrammed at the same time, how do we accomodate the person who feels nudged to vocalize a message?

4.  What kind of oversight should we provide for worship in terms of the spoken ministry?

5.  What do you do in preparation for worship?  Does it occur to you that perhaps you might be the message bearer on any given Sunday?

6.  Should we leave the time usually taken by a prepared message by a pastor open once a month for others to speak?

7.  Should we add 15 minutes to our meetings to give more time for vocal ministry by others?

8.  Should we provide other venues for people to clear themselves of the messages God puts on their hearts?

I’d like to hear what you think would be best for North Valley as we go forward.